David Bohm & Barry Long - Part 2
The meeting of science and self-knowledge
For the second time in December 1983, physicist David Bohm visits Barry Long again, with the aim of deepening his scientific inquiry into the nature of time. Bohm approaches the mystery of existence through science, while Barry speaks from the direct realisation of consciousness itself. What unfolds is an intimate, searching dialogue, in which Bohm’s precise questioning meets Barry’s uncompromising clarity about death, the present, and the truth of self-knowledge. It is a meeting between two exceptional intellects – one reaching through science toward the source, the other already speaking from it.
LENGTH: 1 HOURS AND 59 MINUTES
LANGUAGE: ENGLISH
YEAR RECORDED: 1983
PLACE RECORDED: LONDON, UK
MAIN TOPICS
Self knowledge, Death, Being in the body, Consciousness, Truth beyond understanding, Science, Scientists, Science without love, Karma, Knowledge vs information, Time, Intelligence is timeless, Now
SUMMARY
This extraordinary conversation, recorded in 1983, brings together two very different yet deeply complementary figures: David Bohm, the renowned physicist whose work on quantum theory and the implicate order challenges the limits of science, and Barry Long, the spiritual master whose teaching centres on self-knowledge, the present, and the dissolution of the psychological self.
A Confrontation of Two Kinds of Knowledge
Bohm begins by reflecting on scientific knowledge – how it evolves, how it tests and discards its own theories, and how it can never reach the present moment because all knowledge is formed out of the past.
Long agrees, but pushes further: scientific knowledge is information, not truth.
Only self-knowledge – direct insight into the nature of one's own being – is genuine knowledge. Everything else is provisional, temporary, and tied to memory.
Death as the Unspoken Foundation
A major thread running through the dialogue is the role of death in shaping human consciousness. Long says that fear of death drives the entire movement of thought, time, wanting, and the endless search for knowledge.
To know oneself, one must face death inwardly – the dissolution of the psychological structure. Bohm sees the logic in this: the mind cannot contemplate its own death without dying.
The Present Moment and the End of Time
Both men converge on the understanding that the present cannot be reached by the mind. The present is unknown, immediate, timeless.
Long speaks from this state, describing consciousness as the 'nothing' that contains everything.
Bohm recognises this in his own terms – what he calls the 'implicate order,' the deeper dimension from which the physical world unfolds.
Science, Humanity, and the Crisis of Civilisation
Long views science as an impressive but limited tool. It arose to solve problems created by human ignorance and fear, but has become trapped in the pursuit of information devoid of value.
Real value, he argues, lies in the realisation of consciousness within the individual. Only such individuals could apply knowledge for the good of all humanity.
Bohm's lifelong concern – why human culture continually falls into fragmentation, conflict, and chaos – is answered by Long: civilisation collapses because it is built on fear, memory, and the refusal to face death.
Bohm listens intently, questioning deeply, testing, and gradually resonating with the possibility that Long is speaking from the state Bohm has long sought to understand scientifically.
Bohm brings a rare openness and humility, allowing the discussion to go far deeper than typical exchanges between science and spirituality.
PART 1
The initial meeting between David Bohm and Barry Long took place two weeks prior. Link here: David Bohm & Barry Long - Part 1
